Armagetron Advanced - User contributions [en]

LADLE team-lists

2006-08-19T17:06:22Z

AshitakA: /* Wraith Squadron */

{{Ladle}}
Stick your name down on a list, or start your own team. Based on player feedback, we are going to try to organise the timing a little better so that the day (Sun 3rd September) runs smoothly...

Please indicate a captain. Check out the [[Challenge Room]] for the way the play-offs are organised.

== [[anarchic wanderers]] ==
* 2020
* '''~ }{Alex}{ ~''' {~ may be away, will let u know if i can make it. msn me ~ tcs_ownz_you@hotmail.co.uk ~}
* ghableska- if I can actually make it this time... :)

== [http://teamlol.rocks.it ¡LØL!] ==
* G5 (I hope I can make it)

== [[Wraith Squadron]] ==
* AshitakA

== [[old team lists]] ==
Where you can find the team lists for the First and Second Ladle Games.-->

LADLE team-lists

2006-08-19T17:05:07Z

AshitakA:

{{Ladle}}
Stick your name down on a list, or start your own team. Based on player feedback, we are going to try to organise the timing a little better so that the day (Sun 3rd September) runs smoothly...

Please indicate a captain. Check out the [[Challenge Room]] for the way the play-offs are organised.

== [[anarchic wanderers]] ==
* 2020
* '''~ }{Alex}{ ~''' {~ may be away, will let u know if i can make it. msn me ~ tcs_ownz_you@hotmail.co.uk ~}
* ghableska- if I can actually make it this time... :)

== [http://teamlol.rocks.it ¡LØL!] ==
* G5 (I hope I can make it)

== [[Wraith Squadron]] ==

== [[old team lists]] ==
Where you can find the team lists for the First and Second Ladle Games.-->

International Tron World Cup

2006-08-09T19:10:17Z

AshitakA: /* Can't connect with 0.2.8.1?! */

== Rules ==

All fortress players can participate in this tournament. Just post your name under the name of your country. Please write your name without clan tags.

This is organized in countries, if your country isn't here, edit this page and add it. It will be nice if you respect the alphabetic order. '''The country has to exist!!!''' Maybe if the team grows a lot it can make 2 teams, like east and west, it goes 4 usa :P, plz no invented names.

After all interested players register we will update this page with all the instructions of the tournament. Meanwhile here are some details:

The main plan is that it will be a fortress tournament, played in play-offs mode, when teams are ready, there will be a picture showing the brackets of the road to Tron World Cup. And if it is possible we will try to respect football world cup brackets :D

In case of some countries goes short, there will be a alliances, the way they will be is trying to join to another geo-near (example: spain+portugal->iberia, austria+switc->alps, nordics, ...) or just fusion with other short team (we will try to respect issues like belgium and netherland one :P).

A short team will be one with less than 5 players, this will be the minimum numbers of players to play a match.
*No more players allowed to register
*The specified country will play with the amount of players that have registered here.
*All cw in TWC-ITW server, it has good pings for both,america has 180 ping, not so bad.
*Suggestions will be considered on the next TWC in 4 months->>24 november

'''Further details can be found on the''' '''[http://lod.bigreddesign.co.uk/twc Official Tron World Cup Website]'''

== Groups and Brackets ==
⇒ [[International_Tron_World_Cup_Groups|Groups & Brackets]]

== Comments/suggestions ==

=== Rules ===
I have a few suggestions to make the tourney a little fairer, 1. If one team has more players than the other team, the team with more should only use as many as the other team has.(min number 5)I thought that was standard practice, though I guess not. 2. switch between using a european and a north american server, so no one country has an unfair ping advantage. Maybe use US fortress for North america(good/fast connection), and stick with ITW server for the european server--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]
:Thanks for the suggestions. My inclination is not to change anything now the competition has started, but certainly these things will be taken into consideration for the next world cup. Having said that, would NAFTA be happy for Vanhayes' change 1 to be implemented for the rest of this world cup on the understanding that there would '''not''' be a rematch?--[[User:Dez|Dez]] 18:11, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
::Changing that player count rule, but not repeating the match that was messed up by it would strongly support the theory that the rule was pulled out of AdY-Lucifer's hat at match start for the single purpose of bashing down NAFTA. I see three acceptable ways to proceed: The best thing would be to get rid of the rule and repeat the NAFTA-Germany match, Friday would be a possible time slot. The two other possibilities would be to stick to the rule for the rest of the tournament, or to change the rule, but to remove AdY-Lucifer from the Spanish team to demonstrate the rule change isn't happening for his personal benefit (with eight players, his team would likely be put to a disadvantage by the original rule as well at some point).--[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:::i said that nothing will be changed on this twc.rules werent changed after the first match of twc , what re u screaming about z? -- AdY-Lucifer
::::Please sign your posts. -- [[User:Nemostultae|nemostultae]] 20:38, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm not screaming, SCREAMING LOOKS LIKE THIS. And I'm refering to Dez's suggestion to indeed change the rules during this first tournament. Let me elaborate, sorry if this gets offensive, but there is no other way of explaining: The player count rule is stupid and unfair, and a blind monkey with brain damage could see it. You were asked explicitly about how different team sizes will be handled on the forum (where you're not banned, btw), but gave no answer. The rest of us only knew the rule when it was, apparently, too late to argue. Now, there are two possible explanations: 1. You're stupid and incompetent and 2. you're corrupt, using your position of power in this tournament to put unwanted teams/players at an disadvantage. Right now, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" applies, and explanation 1 wins. Should you however change the rule now, this would strongly suggests the decision to let Germany play with seven players was just an ad-hoc decision to kick out NAFTA, and the rule was crafted afterwards. This would give theory 2 a head. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
::::::What the hell, ady? We were told in the second match (USA vs Alliance 1) that we couldn't play with six because the teams wouldn't been even anymore. But now i see the Russia vs Spain match was played 6v1! This is really unacceptable. How can you say at one game that rule is 'play with the people that show up', then change to 'the teams have to be even' in the next game and then change back again in the third(+ignoring the rule that states a team has to have a minimum of 5 players). This only really supports Z-mans #2 theory since you were in the larger team of the third game. --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]]
:::::::Is this true? Spain vs Russia 6 vs 1? Are there recordings or server logs that can be reviewed? --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
Ok, it is true, their page shows it. Now, the question is, why wasn't it 5 vs 1? I see and believe that Sasha apparently didn't mind playing alone. But, in the Germany vs NAFTA match, we were told we were allowed to play with 7 people because NAFTA registered with 7; we showed up with eight, IIRC. Now, Russia registered with 5, so either I'm missing something here (perhaps you played with the implicit rule that you'd attack Sasha one at a time?) or Spain was playing with one player too many, according to the rule applied at the first match. I guess I'm not the only one who'd like an explanation. From DeZ, if possible, he seems to be the sensible one. All this doesn't make sense to me, unless I adopt one of the two theories as the most likely explanation. At the very least, the statements made here by AdY were *slightly* inaccurate and incomplete. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:The problem here is simply that the rules aren't nearly clear enough and don't cater for the circumstances we found ourselves in. On the two occasions I was in charge (USA v Alliance 1 and Spain v Russia) I took the approach that it was better to try and keep both teams happy than worry about exactly what the rules said.
:In the case of USA v Alliance 1, there were 5 players in each team during the first match. However, part-way through the second match, a 6th Alliance 1 player (a1|Goodkoen) arrived. I felt it unfair that he should join the team with the match underway and allowed the USA another team member (gengis) to balance the teams. Gengis was not from the US, but had not registered to play in another World Cup team. Both teams agreed to him playing.
:Following that decision, I offered Sasha the option to make up numbers in the same way, but (s)he turned this down, opting to play alone. Following the rules here would have meant defaulting Russia on the basis that they didn't have five players. Given that people had turned up wanting a match and Sasha was willing to play, I let the match go ahead. Sasha came up with some inventive and entertaining techniques to cope with the onslaught of Spanish cycles, but the inevitable happened and after two matches of this, Sasha decided that there was no point in continuing.
:I understand peoples' concerns about the fairness of the competition, but please bear with us: we're new to this! We will have clearer rules set out in plenty of time for the next Tron World Cup and I hope people will give us constructive feedback on them so that any problems can be ironed out before the start of the competition. --[[User:Dez|Dez]] 17:57, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Um fairness?? where was teh fairness in uk vs a1...or germany vs nafta?? in a way changing something to make it "fair" isn't very fair for the others who have already played...is it? --BlAzE
:: Would now be a good time to mention that Legit was banned from the server when we asked him to join? I'm willing to allow for being new to running a tournament if you're willing to learn from other tournaments, and there have been 2 recent tournaments that have learned these lessons already. I'm starting to lean towards the Kill NAFTA Conspiracy theory myself, you may have been fair Dez, but it was Ady-Lucifer watching over the NAFTA/Germany match, and if you ask me, the NAFTA team played waaaay better than the Germany team, even if we lost. Ideally, you'd want the team that plays the best to be the team that wins the match, and in a point-based system you already have problems determining that. Then throwing on additional advantages to one team skewers the result even further. If they played so well as to deserve to advance, the point spread shouldn't be as close as it was. --[[User:Lucifer|Lucifer]] 23:14, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Dez: Thanks, that clears some things up. I'd still say Spain vs Russia should have been 5 vs 1, but can file that under beginner's trouble. I think nobody has any objections against the USA vs A1 match, it only serves as a contrast to the less fair matches. Your post also sheds light on the admin structure. So far, I thought you were the technical admin and Ady the political decision maker. I assume Ady was in charge of UK vs A2? Because that one seemed to be 7 vs 5, and again Legit was present and I just assume he would have played for A2 if allowed to. I'd then have a request: could you, and not Ady, manage the rest of the matches? Looks like even when UK is playing, you'd make the better decisions, and it's no problem for me to live with stupid rules if the person in charge is willing to override them. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

Another thing, today's (29th) match has a potential collision with the Ladle tournament if it goes as long as the UK-A2 one. The Ladle is supposed to start at 9 GMT. Germany will have three players potentially leaving for the Ladle, USA will have three players NOT potentially leaving. It could help if we make it an exceptional "best of three" match. I'll also post on the Ladle page to see if the schedule can be moved backwards. I'm not blaming anyone for this collision. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:with only four teams signed up for the ladle, we should only have to conduct the finals at 11.15pm, and semi's at 10.30pm gmt... if the team-captains organise their teams... if the players turn up... so shouldn't be a problem [[User:2020|2020]]
::Great, that should suffice. I withdraw the request to make G - US a best of three match. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
I also noticed that you intend to run the World Cup sometime later in the year. So, what is the title of this World Cup? Is it the 2006 World Cup, or what? [[User:2020|2020]]

=== Can't connect with 0.2.8.1?! ===

It seems as if the ITW server doesn't run for 0.2.8.1--[[User:AshitakA|AshitakA]]
:I just hacked a 0.2.8.1 client to pretend to be a newer (network) version than it actually is, and had no trouble playing there.
:It looks like the responsible setting is <code>CYCLE_DIST_WALL_SHRINK</code> (not to confuse with <code>CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK</code> which the server admins refuse to set). My hacked client complains it received an unknown config of that name, but if I go in with a more recent version and check the value it is still 0 (the default). So actually the server has no reason to block newer clients. Z-man, any ideas? —[[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]] 12:50, 29 July 2006 (CDT)
:Addition: Could one of the server admins grep their logs for that setting? If it blocks out clients because of that it should say someting like "[0] Setting CYCLE_DIST_WALL_SHRINK (Group: Bumpy) deviates from its default value; clients older than 0.2.8.2 will be blocked out.". —[[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]] 12:57, 29 July 2006 (CDT)

The culprit is at the moment CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK, it's set to 1. Could the admin also set CYCLE_RUBBER_WALL_SHRINK_OVERRIDE 0? That would allow 0.2.8.1 and earlier on. Wrtl: to avoid excessive message spamming, only one unknown setting is ever printed, and settings are transfered whether they deviate from the default or not (otherwise, it would never be possible to change the default).
[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

Thanks for fixing. I'd like to note, too, that the Ger-US match went smoothly; thanks for pushing up the client limit.[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

== Teams ==

=== Alliance 1 (Austria, Canada, France and Netherlands) ===
*1394-freak
*JJBean
*BaTTaL
*Voodoo
*k3nny
*Lackadaisical
*freako
*Goodkoen

=== Alliance 2 (Switzerland, Portugal, Poland, Mexico, Italy) ===
*Drashia
*[[User:Cusco|cusco]] (PORTUGAL - going away on the 28th for 2 weeks)
*madmax
*WebGamer
* newbie
* sebol158
*the godfather (italy sicily player)
*Tidus (possibly dont will be there)
*~Super Daddy~

=== Germany ===
Link: [http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=3&threadid=903&page=1#13 Team Germany]
*Fr34k(y)
*Blader
*[[User:Pta|PTA]]
*Z-Man
*~*Mephisto*~
*$ubzero
*Slayer
*H.A.K.
*Sefgu
*Tronfreak
*Alien
*Narrow
*dyyXy!!
*AshitakA

=== North American Free Tron Alliance (NAFTA) ===
* Lucifer
* BlAzE
* anjori
* BaTTaL
* knojf
* Vanhayes
* [[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]]
''See [[Talk:International Tron World Cup]] for discussion''

[[Image:Russ.jpg|left]]

=== Russia ===
*Ossi
*Sasha
*badzilla
*doc
*man2d

[[Image:Spain.jpg|left|30px]]
=== Spain ===
*Ady-Lucifer (From Cantabria, aka Hell)
*ORiON(From Seville, Andalucía)
*[[User:ChiCho|ChiCho]] (From Motril, Andalucia)
*[[User:Xevic|Xevi]] (From Barcelona, Catalunya [[Image:CAT.gif]])
*AuRoN (From Jerez, Andalucia)
*[[User:ArcBeetle|ArcBeetle]] (From Cordoba, Andalucia)
*[[User:kakashi|Kakashi]] ( From Jerez, Andalucia )
*Alf (From Jaén, Andalucía)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4264/ukflag01rp6.jpg
=== United Kingdom ===
*ed (From Wales) - Unable to make the final on Saturday.
*[[User:X3r|X3R]] (be AFRAID!)
*)(Alex)(
*Infamous
*[[User:Syllabear|Syllabear]] (From N.Ireland)
*[[User:Dez|Dez]] (From England)
*Sleepy
*'''Pyroto'''
*2020 (currently in scotland)
*Pez
*Harlequin
*[[User:Xell|Xell]]
*'''Sp33D''' ''hould be ableto play every match go UK!''

(some chit-chat moved to talk page)

=== United States of America ===
*gArIsImO
*Wildcat(Probably cant make it because of work.)
*Goodygumdrops
*Chuck (I'll probably make it, since I have no life and stay at home all day :(, What time EST?)
*[[User:Durka|Dµrkå]] (99.99999999% chance I won't make it)
*Manta
*PsYkO WEWT
*Pandemonium
*Legit
*eclipse
*Stewie! (most likely will not make a very high percentage of not making it.)
*Kyle (may not make it)
*[[Oblivion Muahahaha!]]
* Tits
*Skip
*Play
*genesis

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:13:42Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
:I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in a fair way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to the coming ladle. Have fun, all!

----

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:10:01Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
:I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in logical way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to the coming ladle. Have fun, all!

----

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:07:13Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
:I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in logical way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to the coming ladle. Have fun, all!

----

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:05:03Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
:I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in logical way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to next ladle. Have fun!

----

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:03:12Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
:I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.
The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in logical way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to next ladle. Have fun!

----

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

Ladle Feedback

2006-07-30T02:01:03Z

AshitakA: /* Feedback for the Second Ladle */

{{Ladle}}

Please write your comments below about your experience of the event. You can also add comments about how it could be better... This information may be useful for anyone who tries to do such a thing again...

== Feedback for the Second Ladle ==

;2020
:Ping was a big determiner in who won the matches. Ideas suggested during the game was to split the final between two servers. Also, the captains did not make use of the challenge room in the wiki. It was all just organised before the matches, which was ok because we only have four teams of about five players each. The idea is for the system to be future-proof, scalable to hundreds if not thousands of team... I can't see this working that well with more than four teams. I think team captains should take a little more responsibillity for making sure they choose a server that suits their players. And of course, it is the responsibility of the players to turn up! Oh well... Also... it would be nice to have little animations of the highlight, specific moves, climax battles, that kind of thing... can I change the format of the recording to make it quicktime? [[User:2020|2020]]
;Lackadaisical
:Would it be possible to do the next ladle on a sunday and maybe a bit earlier? Saturday night isn't the best time to go play a computergame for the europeans.

;Meriton
:The time the event takes place (start at 11:30 PM) is a bit tough for me. Might it be possible to indulge us European players and have it take place a couple of hours earlier next time? Personally, I prefer Saturday to Sunday as I have to get up early on Mondays.
----

;Manta
:If we are to drop scheduled games again from not enough teams show, we should move those matches up in time instead of delaying. WS lost half their players do to the time being changed. We do need to work out the scheduling on the wiki better next time as the matches ended up being switched right before game time.

:The procedural changes made since the last ladle really improved things. You did a GREAT job coordinating everything 2020. Thank you! Team coordination seemed to flow very well and having an admin on hand was a big help. The team captains were able to work out any issues and the players were polite to each other. I'd say we all had fun and in the end that is the reason we all showed up. Congratulations to everyone who played!

:And dealing with the ping issue: Over all having a few low ping players on any one team does not make it unfair. It is when 100% of one team's players have 1/3 the ping of the other that attrition will catch up every time. (Not to bring up my 438 ping ;), lol) An average 180s on one side vs 60s on the other can be a bit unbalanced. Similar to a 4 vs 7 player match. To solve this I don't think a single server can be found to please everyone. Germany does have some of the most active players so it would be wrong to say force them to play a US server for example. Perhaps some ideas can be worked out before the next ladle. Playing half the games on one server then switching might cause it's own logistics issues. What are some other peoples ideas?

----

;AshitakA
: I think it was great... And thanks to all players and those, who made this possible.
The solution for the high pings would be a server on which every player could play with equal ping. But there is no one. So i think, like you said Manta, the server has to be changed. But in logical way. Maybe every team has to play on different servers, or every game would be played twice on two different servers. However, i look forward to next ladle. Have fun!

== Feedback for the First Ladle ==

=== The Quality of Your Playing ===
;2020
:I was a passenger. I moved house, was using an old computer (fps was 15), and my connection got broken 3 times while playing Shadow League in the Semi's -- aaaaarrrrrghghghghgh. Like Van, hehe, and Durka I think.
* Yep me 2---[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*heh ya I wish my connection dropped only 3 times, More like 10-15, there was a storm going on at the time--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]

;Manta
:It was a nice surprise that my ISP didn't have their usual holiday weekend hiccups. :) Over all I certainly could have done better, I'm not very good under pressure and my dialup connection seems to get saturated with more than 12 players on the grid. Oh and Manta sucks at sweeping :P

;sky
:well my computer already sucks haha. so i did fine until the AW match. made a lot more mistakes. only in the last AW match i was able to get like 8 or 10 points or somethin. but the other rounds there were less players playing like 7v7s or 6v6s and it was much easier to get through. also my ping was nicer. i want a pc haha. still had a great time though

=== The Quality of Your Team Playing ===
;2020
:Anarchic Wanderers were amazing. I never got to see much of the offence, but defence was superb. Garissimo was solid at the back, only getting beaten when the odds were 4 to 1. I saw Vanhayes pulling off a major stunt -- amazing! And Eggcozy was superb as sweeper. I had fun playing with the offence of the other teams most times; we just kept them back for ages while our offence did the biz. Superb quality of play.
*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I played for AW in the match against SL. I didn't get to see much of the amazing defense by our team. Everytime I would just bust through their middle and take up part of Sasha's def before he could make it complete. The problem was SL sometimes delayed Zop and the others from getting there soon enough...so I would be cramming part of the zone, but it would sometimes do nothing as we had no one else. SL realized this and Sasha's teammates would try and trap me in their zone. But, sometimes it did work and Zop would get their fast along with one other person and we would capture the zone fast (3 offense vs. 2 defense). It was a great team effort...4 points from winning the second match and 2 from winning the third. Well done SL and CONGRATULATIONS.
*'''sKy'''
:awesome

=== Getting Your Team Ready for The Match ===
;2020
:Damned messy. I couldn't get on the server for about 10 mins. We started about 30 mins late... it gets a little tedious when people are there, some playing, some just waiting for the real game. It would be nice if we could just import an entire team into a server. Have some kind of pre-grid preparation like in the film. Once teams are sorted, we just port into the server. Would be simple. Players would then turn up on time, otherwise, they just miss the boat. Trying to organise a match while playing is tough... too many distractions. Still... we managed it in the end... somehow...

*;[[User:Durka|Durka]]
*:I got to play one round with ¡LØL! because I was late. I showed up and only 2 people that were ACTUALLY on WS were playing. Everyone else was picked up "from the streets." (Example: man2d played with ¡LØL!, (WS), & SL during the tourney...just a little unfair). Also, we really needed 8 teams not 6 (there were 7, but CT didn't show). (Example: the ¡LØL! vs. WS match in the first round was actually a semi-final match so who-ever won was automatically in the finals...yet again weird. But, overall, the tourney was definately fun. Next time 2020, can we please not try and play the tournament '''ALL IN ONE DAY!!!''' Too chaotic!

;Manta
:Getting Wraith Squadron ready for each match was actually quite easy. All our players met in an MSN chat room one hour before the start time and we did all our coordinating from there. This made it very easy for us to all show up on one server at the same time. We then disconnected during game play of course. ---- Since there were ONLY 2 ladle servers and LOL & WS were the last teams paired we were forced to use Bugfarm fortress. This caused quite a bit of confusion with visiting players joining the match. Kindly, most willingly left or stayed as spectators. Also I don't believe man2d played for WS at any time during the tournament as he was on each of the opposing teams we played. Wish we had had him though.

=== Team-Captains and the Challenge Room ===
;2020
:As admin of 2020's T-room it was ok... but a bit stressful. Loads of people, including non-captains and noobs entering. The text area was too small and too many people were talking. Some were asking me to die so that they could join the game -- as if we were meant to be playing! Some of the non-captains were useful since they could leave the T-room and search for players like Xevi for Crazy Tronners, and the state of play in matches.
:Team-captains did the job well though, challenging one another, then setting off to do their matches. However, I think we should have waited until everyone knew who was playing who and where before leaving. The only real way of doing this is building a simple interface with challenge-board, etc so that people could see if they were challenged and whether they accepted etc. Still.. on the whole, it worked.

;Manta
:While using the T-room was problematic it did serve it's purpose well and its probably the only 100% sure way everyone has to communicate. 2020 took down the chat-server while he played which is understandable but we really need one up at all times for team captains to check in on each other while another match may still be ongoing. THANK YOU for all your work 2020, the ladle would not have been the success it was without you!

=== Anything else? ===
;2020
:Could have done with more matches. Also, losing teams could have played one another. In fact, we probably had time to play a round-robin affair. What was best about it is that we ended up with a winner. We trusted team-captains, and they pulled it off.
:My wishlist? Somehow keep teams together, maybe with some kind of pre-grid preparation room like the film. If this runs simultaneously to gameplay, you can be playing around in some server, and then when your team is assembled and ready, you are notified and requested to port to the proper server where your team assembles against the opposing team. Also, some kind of software to automate the challenges. The chat-facility was not good enough... too much noise...
:It is all to do with timing. As a first attempt, I think it was successful. The trick is... how to make it better...

;Manta
:--- Having the ability to lock a server to a certain number of players ahead of time. While letting there be room for a couple of spectators so backup team members can standby but keeping riffraff from joining. --- Letting a small majority successfully kick someone, without having to distract all the players with the vote. --- Have shuffle down AND up enabled to allow team placement. --- Have more servers available. --- Personally I liked the month long idea but I must say having the games all on one day seemed to work better. But this also made it very hectic and with elimination, losing teams only got to play one match after the effort of getting everyone coordinated. --- Over all I'd say the ladle was a great success and everyone had a great time which is most important.

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-29T16:59:02Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

== Rules ==

All fortress players can participate in this tournament. Just post your name under the name of your country. Please write your name without clan tags.

This is organized in countries, if your country isn't here, edit this page and add it. It will be nice if you respect the alphabetic order. '''The country has to exist!!!''' Maybe if the team grows a lot it can make 2 teams, like east and west, it goes 4 usa :P, plz no invented names.

After all interested players register we will update this page with all the instructions of the tournament. Meanwhile here are some details:

The main plan is that it will be a fortress tournament, played in play-offs mode, when teams are ready, there will be a picture showing the brackets of the road to Tron World Cup. And if it is possible we will try to respect football world cup brackets :D

In case of some countries goes short, there will be a alliances, the way they will be is trying to join to another geo-near (example: spain+portugal->iberia, austria+switc->alps, nordics, ...) or just fusion with other short team (we will try to respect issues like belgium and netherland one :P).

A short team will be one with less than 5 players, this will be the minimum numbers of players to play a match.
*No more players allowed to register
*The specified country will play with the amount of players that have registered here.
*All cw in TWC-ITW server, it has good pings for both,america has 180 ping, not so bad.
*Suggestions will be considered on the next TWC in 4 months->>24 november

'''Further details can be found on the''' '''[http://lod.bigreddesign.co.uk/twc Official Tron World Cup Website]'''

== Groups and Brackets ==
⇒ [[International_Tron_World_Cup_Groups|Groups & Brackets]]

== Comments/suggestions ==
I have a few suggestions to make the tourney a little fairer, 1. If one team has more players than the other team, the team with more should only use as many as the other team has.(min number 5)I thought that was standard practice, though I guess not. 2. switch between using a european and a north american server, so no one country has an unfair ping advantage. Maybe use US fortress for North america(good/fast connection), and stick with ITW server for the european server--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]
:Thanks for the suggestions. My inclination is not to change anything now the competition has started, but certainly these things will be taken into consideration for the next world cup. Having said that, would NAFTA be happy for Vanhayes' change 1 to be implemented for the rest of this world cup on the understanding that there would '''not''' be a rematch?--[[User:Dez|Dez]] 18:11, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
::Changing that player count rule, but not repeating the match that was messed up by it would strongly support the theory that the rule was pulled out of AdY-Lucifer's hat at match start for the single purpose of bashing down NAFTA. I see three acceptable ways to proceed: The best thing would be to get rid of the rule and repeat the NAFTA-Germany match, Friday would be a possible time slot. The two other possibilities would be to stick to the rule for the rest of the tournament, or to change the rule, but to remove AdY-Lucifer from the Spanish team to demonstrate the rule change isn't happening for his personal benefit (with eight players, his team would likely be put to a disadvantage by the original rule as well at some point).--[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:::i said that nothing will be changed on this twc.rules werent changed after the first match of twc , what re u screaming about z? -- AdY-Lucifer
::::Please sign your posts. -- [[User:Nemostultae|nemostultae]] 20:38, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm not screaming, SCREAMING LOOKS LIKE THIS. And I'm refering to Dez's suggestion to indeed change the rules during this first tournament. Let me elaborate, sorry if this gets offensive, but there is no other way of explaining: The player count rule is stupid and unfair, and a blind monkey with brain damage could see it. You were asked explicitly about how different team sizes will be handled on the forum (where you're not banned, btw), but gave no answer. The rest of us only knew the rule when it was, apparently, too late to argue. Now, there are two possible explanations: 1. You're stupid and incompetent and 2. you're corrupt, using your position of power in this tournament to put unwanted teams/players at an disadvantage. Right now, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" applies, and explanation 1 wins. Should you however change the rule now, this would strongly suggests the decision to let Germany play with seven players was just an ad-hoc decision to kick out NAFTA, and the rule was crafted afterwards. This would give theory 2 a head. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
::::::What the hell, ady? We were told in the second match (USA vs Alliance 1) that we couldn't play with six because the teams wouldn't been even anymore. But now i see the Russia vs Spain match was played 6v1! This is really unacceptable. How can you say at one game that rule is 'play with the people that show up', then change to 'the teams have to be even' in the next game and then change back again in the third(+ignoring the rule that states a team has to have a minimum of 5 players). This only really supports Z-mans #2 theory since you were in the larger team of the third game. --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]]
:::::::Is this true? Spain vs Russia 6 vs 1? Are there recordings or server logs that can be reviewed? --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
Ok, it is true, their page shows it. Now, the question is, why wasn't it 5 vs 1? I see and believe that Sasha apparently didn't mind playing alone. But, in the Germany vs NAFTA match, we were told we were allowed to play with 7 people because NAFTA registered with 7; we showed up with eight, IIRC. Now, Russia registered with 5, so either I'm missing something here (perhaps you played with the implicit rule that you'd attack Sasha one at a time?) or Spain was playing with one player too many, according to the rule applied at the first match. I guess I'm not the only one who'd like an explanation. From DeZ, if possible, he seems to be the sensible one. All this doesn't make sense to me, unless I adopt one of the two theories as the most likely explanation. At the very least, the statements made here by AdY were *slightly* inaccurate and incomplete. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:The problem here is simply that the rules aren't nearly clear enough and don't cater for the circumstances we found ourselves in. On the two occasions I was in charge (USA v Alliance 1 and Spain v Russia) I took the approach that it was better to try and keep both teams happy than worry about exactly what the rules said.
:In the case of USA v Alliance 1, there were 5 players in each team during the first match. However, part-way through the second match, a 6th Alliance 1 player (a1|Goodkoen) arrived. I felt it unfair that he should join the team with the match underway and allowed the USA another team member (gengis) to balance the teams. Gengis was not from the US, but had not registered to play in another World Cup team. Both teams agreed to him playing.
:Following that decision, I offered Sasha the option to make up numbers in the same way, but (s)he turned this down, opting to play alone. Following the rules here would have meant defaulting Russia on the basis that they didn't have five players. Given that people had turned up wanting a match and Sasha was willing to play, I let the match go ahead. Sasha came up with some inventive and entertaining techniques to cope with the onslaught of Spanish cycles, but the inevitable happened and after two matches of this, Sasha decided that there was no point in continuing.
:I understand peoples' concerns about the fairness of the competition, but please bear with us: we're new to this! We will have clearer rules set out in plenty of time for the next Tron World Cup and I hope people will give us constructive feedback on them so that any problems can be ironed out before the start of the competition. --[[User:Dez|Dez]] 17:57, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Um fairness?? where was teh fairness in uk vs a1...or germany vs nafta?? in a way changing something to make it "fair" isn't very fair for the others who have already played...is it? --BlAzE
:: Would now be a good time to mention that Legit was banned from the server when we asked him to join? I'm willing to allow for being new to running a tournament if you're willing to learn from other tournaments, and there have been 2 recent tournaments that have learned these lessons already. I'm starting to lean towards the Kill NAFTA Conspiracy theory myself, you may have been fair Dez, but it was Ady-Lucifer watching over the NAFTA/Germany match, and if you ask me, the NAFTA team played waaaay better than the Germany team, even if we lost. Ideally, you'd want the team that plays the best to be the team that wins the match, and in a point-based system you already have problems determining that. Then throwing on additional advantages to one team skewers the result even further. If they played so well as to deserve to advance, the point spread shouldn't be as close as it was. --[[User:Lucifer|Lucifer]] 23:14, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Dez: Thanks, that clears some things up. I'd still say Spain vs Russia should have been 5 vs 1, but can file that under beginner's trouble. I think nobody has any objections against the USA vs A1 match, it only serves as a contrast to the less fair matches. Your post also sheds light on the admin structure. So far, I thought you were the technical admin and Ady the political decision maker. I assume Ady was in charge of UK vs A2? Because that one seemed to be 7 vs 5, and again Legit was present and I just assume he would have played for A2 if allowed to. I'd then have a request: could you, and not Ady, manage the rest of the matches? Looks like even when UK is playing, you'd make the better decisions, and it's no problem for me to live with stupid rules if the person in charge is willing to override them. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

Another thing, today's (29th) match has a potential collision with the Ladle tournament if it goes as long as the UK-A2 one. The Ladle is supposed to start at 9 GMT. Germany will have three players potentially leaving for the Ladle, USA will have three players NOT potentially leaving. It could help if we make it an exceptional "best of three" match. I'll also post on the Ladle page to see if the schedule can be moved backwards. I'm not blaming anyone for this collision. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:with only four teams signed up for the ladle, we should only have to conduct the finals at 11.15pm, and semi's at 10.30pm gmt... if the team-captains organise their teams... if the players turn up... so shouldn't be a problem [[User:2020|2020]]
::Great, that should suffice. I withdraw the request to make G - US a best of three match. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
I also noticed that you intend to run the World Cup sometime later in the year. So, what is the title of this World Cup? Is it the 2006 World Cup, or what? [[User:2020|2020]]

It seems as if the ITW server doesn't run for 2.8.1--[[User:AshitakA|AshitakA]]

== Teams ==

=== Alliance 1 (Austria, Canada, France and Netherlands) ===
*1394-freak
*JJBean
*BaTTaL
*Voodoo
*k3nny
*Lackadaisical
*freako
*Goodkoen

=== Alliance 2 (Switzerland, Portugal, Poland, Mexico, Italy) ===
*Drashia
*[[User:Cusco|cusco]] (PORTUGAL - going away on the 28th for 2 weeks)
*madmax
*WebGamer
* newbie
* sebol158
*the godfather (italy sicily player)
*Tidus (possibly dont will be there)
*~Super Daddy~

=== Germany ===
Link: [http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=3&threadid=903&page=1#13 Team Germany]
*Fr34k(y)
*Blader
*[[User:Pta|PTA]]
*Z-Man
*~*Mephisto*~
*$ubzero
*Slayer
*H.A.K.
*Sefgu
*Tronfreak
*Alien
*Narrow
*dyyXy!!
*AshitakA

=== North American Free Tron Alliance (NAFTA) ===
* Lucifer
* BlAzE
* anjori
* BaTTaL
* knojf
* Vanhayes
* [[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]]
''See [[Talk:International Tron World Cup]] for discussion''

[[Image:Russ.jpg|left]]

=== Russia ===
*Ossi
*Sasha
*badzilla
*doc
*man2d

[[Image:Spain.jpg|left|30px]]
=== Spain ===
*Ady-Lucifer (From Cantabria, aka Hell)
*ORiON(From Seville, Andalucía)
*[[User:ChiCho|ChiCho]] (From Motril, Andalucia)
*[[User:Xevic|Xevi]] (From Barcelona, Catalunya [[Image:CAT.gif]])
*AuRoN (From Jerez, Andalucia)
*[[User:ArcBeetle|ArcBeetle]] (From Cordoba, Andalucia)
*[[User:kakashi|Kakashi]] ( From Jerez, Andalucia )
*Alf (From Jaén, Andalucía)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4264/ukflag01rp6.jpg
=== United Kingdom ===
*ed (From Wales)
*[[User:X3r|X3R]] (be AFRAID!)
*)(Alex)(
*Infamous
*[[User:Syllabear|Syllabear]] (From N.Ireland)
*[[User:Dez|Dez]] (From England)
*Sleepy
*'''Pyroto'''
*2020 (currently in scotland)
*Pez
*Harlequin
*[[User:Xell|Xell]]
*'''Sp33D''' ''hould be ableto play every match go UK!''

@ Alex and Infamous, show some dignity. Temp ban of 1 day... would have been a week except for the fact you might need to post something to support your team --[[User:Your mom|Your mom]] 18:19, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

=== United States of America ===
*gArIsImO
*Wildcat(Probably cant make it because of work.)
*Goodygumdrops
*Chuck (I'll probably make it, since I have no life and stay at home all day :(, What time EST?)
*[[User:Durka|Dµrkå]] (99.99999999% chance I won't make it)
*Manta (This is 1PM in the afternoon! doesn't anyone work?)
*PsYkO WEWT
*Pandemonium
*Legit
*eclipse
*Stewie! (most likely will not make a very high percentage of not making it.)
*Kyle (may not make it)
*[[Oblivion Muahahaha!]]
* Tits
*Skip

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-29T16:54:51Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

== Rules ==

All fortress players can participate in this tournament. Just post your name under the name of your country. Please write your name without clan tags.

This is organized in countries, if your country isn't here, edit this page and add it. It will be nice if you respect the alphabetic order. '''The country has to exist!!!''' Maybe if the team grows a lot it can make 2 teams, like east and west, it goes 4 usa :P, plz no invented names.

After all interested players register we will update this page with all the instructions of the tournament. Meanwhile here are some details:

The main plan is that it will be a fortress tournament, played in play-offs mode, when teams are ready, there will be a picture showing the brackets of the road to Tron World Cup. And if it is possible we will try to respect football world cup brackets :D

In case of some countries goes short, there will be a alliances, the way they will be is trying to join to another geo-near (example: spain+portugal->iberia, austria+switc->alps, nordics, ...) or just fusion with other short team (we will try to respect issues like belgium and netherland one :P).

A short team will be one with less than 5 players, this will be the minimum numbers of players to play a match.
*No more players allowed to register
*The specified country will play with the amount of players that have registered here.
*All cw in TWC-ITW server, it has good pings for both,america has 180 ping, not so bad.
*Suggestions will be considered on the next TWC in 4 months->>24 november

'''Further details can be found on the''' '''[http://lod.bigreddesign.co.uk/twc Official Tron World Cup Website]'''

== Groups and Brackets ==
⇒ [[International_Tron_World_Cup_Groups|Groups & Brackets]]

== Comments/suggestions ==
I have a few suggestions to make the tourney a little fairer, 1. If one team has more players than the other team, the team with more should only use as many as the other team has.(min number 5)I thought that was standard practice, though I guess not. 2. switch between using a european and a north american server, so no one country has an unfair ping advantage. Maybe use US fortress for North america(good/fast connection), and stick with ITW server for the european server--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]
:Thanks for the suggestions. My inclination is not to change anything now the competition has started, but certainly these things will be taken into consideration for the next world cup. Having said that, would NAFTA be happy for Vanhayes' change 1 to be implemented for the rest of this world cup on the understanding that there would '''not''' be a rematch?--[[User:Dez|Dez]] 18:11, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
::Changing that player count rule, but not repeating the match that was messed up by it would strongly support the theory that the rule was pulled out of AdY-Lucifer's hat at match start for the single purpose of bashing down NAFTA. I see three acceptable ways to proceed: The best thing would be to get rid of the rule and repeat the NAFTA-Germany match, Friday would be a possible time slot. The two other possibilities would be to stick to the rule for the rest of the tournament, or to change the rule, but to remove AdY-Lucifer from the Spanish team to demonstrate the rule change isn't happening for his personal benefit (with eight players, his team would likely be put to a disadvantage by the original rule as well at some point).--[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:::i said that nothing will be changed on this twc.rules werent changed after the first match of twc , what re u screaming about z? -- AdY-Lucifer
::::Please sign your posts. -- [[User:Nemostultae|nemostultae]] 20:38, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm not screaming, SCREAMING LOOKS LIKE THIS. And I'm refering to Dez's suggestion to indeed change the rules during this first tournament. Let me elaborate, sorry if this gets offensive, but there is no other way of explaining: The player count rule is stupid and unfair, and a blind monkey with brain damage could see it. You were asked explicitly about how different team sizes will be handled on the forum (where you're not banned, btw), but gave no answer. The rest of us only knew the rule when it was, apparently, too late to argue. Now, there are two possible explanations: 1. You're stupid and incompetent and 2. you're corrupt, using your position of power in this tournament to put unwanted teams/players at an disadvantage. Right now, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" applies, and explanation 1 wins. Should you however change the rule now, this would strongly suggests the decision to let Germany play with seven players was just an ad-hoc decision to kick out NAFTA, and the rule was crafted afterwards. This would give theory 2 a head. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
::::::What the hell, ady? We were told in the second match (USA vs Alliance 1) that we couldn't play with six because the teams wouldn't been even anymore. But now i see the Russia vs Spain match was played 6v1! This is really unacceptable. How can you say at one game that rule is 'play with the people that show up', then change to 'the teams have to be even' in the next game and then change back again in the third(+ignoring the rule that states a team has to have a minimum of 5 players). This only really supports Z-mans #2 theory since you were in the larger team of the third game. --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]]
:::::::Is this true? Spain vs Russia 6 vs 1? Are there recordings or server logs that can be reviewed? --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
Ok, it is true, their page shows it. Now, the question is, why wasn't it 5 vs 1? I see and believe that Sasha apparently didn't mind playing alone. But, in the Germany vs NAFTA match, we were told we were allowed to play with 7 people because NAFTA registered with 7; we showed up with eight, IIRC. Now, Russia registered with 5, so either I'm missing something here (perhaps you played with the implicit rule that you'd attack Sasha one at a time?) or Spain was playing with one player too many, according to the rule applied at the first match. I guess I'm not the only one who'd like an explanation. From DeZ, if possible, he seems to be the sensible one. All this doesn't make sense to me, unless I adopt one of the two theories as the most likely explanation. At the very least, the statements made here by AdY were *slightly* inaccurate and incomplete. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:The problem here is simply that the rules aren't nearly clear enough and don't cater for the circumstances we found ourselves in. On the two occasions I was in charge (USA v Alliance 1 and Spain v Russia) I took the approach that it was better to try and keep both teams happy than worry about exactly what the rules said.
:In the case of USA v Alliance 1, there were 5 players in each team during the first match. However, part-way through the second match, a 6th Alliance 1 player (a1|Goodkoen) arrived. I felt it unfair that he should join the team with the match underway and allowed the USA another team member (gengis) to balance the teams. Gengis was not from the US, but had not registered to play in another World Cup team. Both teams agreed to him playing.
:Following that decision, I offered Sasha the option to make up numbers in the same way, but (s)he turned this down, opting to play alone. Following the rules here would have meant defaulting Russia on the basis that they didn't have five players. Given that people had turned up wanting a match and Sasha was willing to play, I let the match go ahead. Sasha came up with some inventive and entertaining techniques to cope with the onslaught of Spanish cycles, but the inevitable happened and after two matches of this, Sasha decided that there was no point in continuing.
:I understand peoples' concerns about the fairness of the competition, but please bear with us: we're new to this! We will have clearer rules set out in plenty of time for the next Tron World Cup and I hope people will give us constructive feedback on them so that any problems can be ironed out before the start of the competition. --[[User:Dez|Dez]] 17:57, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Um fairness?? where was teh fairness in uk vs a1...or germany vs nafta?? in a way changing something to make it "fair" isn't very fair for the others who have already played...is it? --BlAzE
:: Would now be a good time to mention that Legit was banned from the server when we asked him to join? I'm willing to allow for being new to running a tournament if you're willing to learn from other tournaments, and there have been 2 recent tournaments that have learned these lessons already. I'm starting to lean towards the Kill NAFTA Conspiracy theory myself, you may have been fair Dez, but it was Ady-Lucifer watching over the NAFTA/Germany match, and if you ask me, the NAFTA team played waaaay better than the Germany team, even if we lost. Ideally, you'd want the team that plays the best to be the team that wins the match, and in a point-based system you already have problems determining that. Then throwing on additional advantages to one team skewers the result even further. If they played so well as to deserve to advance, the point spread shouldn't be as close as it was. --[[User:Lucifer|Lucifer]] 23:14, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Dez: Thanks, that clears some things up. I'd still say Spain vs Russia should have been 5 vs 1, but can file that under beginner's trouble. I think nobody has any objections against the USA vs A1 match, it only serves as a contrast to the less fair matches. Your post also sheds light on the admin structure. So far, I thought you were the technical admin and Ady the political decision maker. I assume Ady was in charge of UK vs A2? Because that one seemed to be 7 vs 5, and again Legit was present and I just assume he would have played for A2 if allowed to. I'd then have a request: could you, and not Ady, manage the rest of the matches? Looks like even when UK is playing, you'd make the better decisions, and it's no problem for me to live with stupid rules if the person in charge is willing to override them. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

Another thing, today's (29th) match has a potential collision with the Ladle tournament if it goes as long as the UK-A2 one. The Ladle is supposed to start at 9 GMT. Germany will have three players potentially leaving for the Ladle, USA will have three players NOT potentially leaving. It could help if we make it an exceptional "best of three" match. I'll also post on the Ladle page to see if the schedule can be moved backwards. I'm not blaming anyone for this collision. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:with only four teams signed up for the ladle, we should only have to conduct the finals at 11.15pm, and semi's at 10.30pm gmt... if the team-captains organise their teams... if the players turn up... so shouldn't be a problem [[User:2020|2020]]
::Great, that should suffice. I withdraw the request to make G - US a best of three match. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
I also noticed that you intend to run the World Cup sometime later in the year. So, what is the title of this World Cup? Is it the 2006 World Cup, or what? [[User:2020|2020]]

It looks like the ITW server doesn't run for 2.8.1--[[User:AshitakA|AshitakA]]

== Teams ==

=== Alliance 1 (Austria, Canada, France and Netherlands) ===
*1394-freak
*JJBean
*BaTTaL
*Voodoo
*k3nny
*Lackadaisical
*freako
*Goodkoen

=== Alliance 2 (Switzerland, Portugal, Poland, Mexico, Italy) ===
*Drashia
*[[User:Cusco|cusco]] (PORTUGAL - going away on the 28th for 2 weeks)
*madmax
*WebGamer
* newbie
* sebol158
*the godfather (italy sicily player)
*Tidus (possibly dont will be there)
*~Super Daddy~

=== Germany ===
Link: [http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=3&threadid=903&page=1#13 Team Germany]
*Fr34k(y)
*Blader
*[[User:Pta|PTA]]
*Z-Man
*~*Mephisto*~
*$ubzero
*Slayer
*H.A.K.
*Sefgu
*Tronfreak
*Alien
*Narrow
*dyyXy!!
*AshitakA

=== North American Free Tron Alliance (NAFTA) ===
* Lucifer
* BlAzE
* anjori
* BaTTaL
* knojf
* Vanhayes
* [[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]]
''See [[Talk:International Tron World Cup]] for discussion''

[[Image:Russ.jpg|left]]

=== Russia ===
*Ossi
*Sasha
*badzilla
*doc
*man2d

[[Image:Spain.jpg|left|30px]]
=== Spain ===
*Ady-Lucifer (From Cantabria, aka Hell)
*ORiON(From Seville, Andalucía)
*[[User:ChiCho|ChiCho]] (From Motril, Andalucia)
*[[User:Xevic|Xevi]] (From Barcelona, Catalunya [[Image:CAT.gif]])
*AuRoN (From Jerez, Andalucia)
*[[User:ArcBeetle|ArcBeetle]] (From Cordoba, Andalucia)
*[[User:kakashi|Kakashi]] ( From Jerez, Andalucia )
*Alf (From Jaén, Andalucía)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4264/ukflag01rp6.jpg
=== United Kingdom ===
*ed (From Wales)
*[[User:X3r|X3R]] (be AFRAID!)
*)(Alex)(
*Infamous
*[[User:Syllabear|Syllabear]] (From N.Ireland)
*[[User:Dez|Dez]] (From England)
*Sleepy
*'''Pyroto'''
*2020 (currently in scotland)
*Pez
*Harlequin
*[[User:Xell|Xell]]
*'''Sp33D''' ''hould be ableto play every match go UK!''

@ Alex and Infamous, show some dignity. Temp ban of 1 day... would have been a week except for the fact you might need to post something to support your team --[[User:Your mom|Your mom]] 18:19, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

=== United States of America ===
*gArIsImO
*Wildcat(Probably cant make it because of work.)
*Goodygumdrops
*Chuck (I'll probably make it, since I have no life and stay at home all day :(, What time EST?)
*[[User:Durka|Dµrkå]] (99.99999999% chance I won't make it)
*Manta (This is 1PM in the afternoon! doesn't anyone work?)
*PsYkO WEWT
*Pandemonium
*Legit
*eclipse
*Stewie! (most likely will not make a very high percentage of not making it.)
*Kyle (may not make it)
*[[Oblivion Muahahaha!]]
* Tits
*Skip

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-29T16:53:50Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

== Rules ==

All fortress players can participate in this tournament. Just post your name under the name of your country. Please write your name without clan tags.

This is organized in countries, if your country isn't here, edit this page and add it. It will be nice if you respect the alphabetic order. '''The country has to exist!!!''' Maybe if the team grows a lot it can make 2 teams, like east and west, it goes 4 usa :P, plz no invented names.

After all interested players register we will update this page with all the instructions of the tournament. Meanwhile here are some details:

The main plan is that it will be a fortress tournament, played in play-offs mode, when teams are ready, there will be a picture showing the brackets of the road to Tron World Cup. And if it is possible we will try to respect football world cup brackets :D

In case of some countries goes short, there will be a alliances, the way they will be is trying to join to another geo-near (example: spain+portugal->iberia, austria+switc->alps, nordics, ...) or just fusion with other short team (we will try to respect issues like belgium and netherland one :P).

A short team will be one with less than 5 players, this will be the minimum numbers of players to play a match.
*No more players allowed to register
*The specified country will play with the amount of players that have registered here.
*All cw in TWC-ITW server, it has good pings for both,america has 180 ping, not so bad.
*Suggestions will be considered on the next TWC in 4 months->>24 november

'''Further details can be found on the''' '''[http://lod.bigreddesign.co.uk/twc Official Tron World Cup Website]'''

== Groups and Brackets ==
⇒ [[International_Tron_World_Cup_Groups|Groups & Brackets]]

== Comments/suggestions ==
I have a few suggestions to make the tourney a little fairer, 1. If one team has more players than the other team, the team with more should only use as many as the other team has.(min number 5)I thought that was standard practice, though I guess not. 2. switch between using a european and a north american server, so no one country has an unfair ping advantage. Maybe use US fortress for North america(good/fast connection), and stick with ITW server for the european server--[[User:Vanhayes|Vanhayes]]
:Thanks for the suggestions. My inclination is not to change anything now the competition has started, but certainly these things will be taken into consideration for the next world cup. Having said that, would NAFTA be happy for Vanhayes' change 1 to be implemented for the rest of this world cup on the understanding that there would '''not''' be a rematch?--[[User:Dez|Dez]] 18:11, 24 July 2006 (CDT)
::Changing that player count rule, but not repeating the match that was messed up by it would strongly support the theory that the rule was pulled out of AdY-Lucifer's hat at match start for the single purpose of bashing down NAFTA. I see three acceptable ways to proceed: The best thing would be to get rid of the rule and repeat the NAFTA-Germany match, Friday would be a possible time slot. The two other possibilities would be to stick to the rule for the rest of the tournament, or to change the rule, but to remove AdY-Lucifer from the Spanish team to demonstrate the rule change isn't happening for his personal benefit (with eight players, his team would likely be put to a disadvantage by the original rule as well at some point).--[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:::i said that nothing will be changed on this twc.rules werent changed after the first match of twc , what re u screaming about z? -- AdY-Lucifer
::::Please sign your posts. -- [[User:Nemostultae|nemostultae]] 20:38, 26 July 2006 (CDT)
:::::I'm not screaming, SCREAMING LOOKS LIKE THIS. And I'm refering to Dez's suggestion to indeed change the rules during this first tournament. Let me elaborate, sorry if this gets offensive, but there is no other way of explaining: The player count rule is stupid and unfair, and a blind monkey with brain damage could see it. You were asked explicitly about how different team sizes will be handled on the forum (where you're not banned, btw), but gave no answer. The rest of us only knew the rule when it was, apparently, too late to argue. Now, there are two possible explanations: 1. You're stupid and incompetent and 2. you're corrupt, using your position of power in this tournament to put unwanted teams/players at an disadvantage. Right now, "Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity" applies, and explanation 1 wins. Should you however change the rule now, this would strongly suggests the decision to let Germany play with seven players was just an ad-hoc decision to kick out NAFTA, and the rule was crafted afterwards. This would give theory 2 a head. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
::::::What the hell, ady? We were told in the second match (USA vs Alliance 1) that we couldn't play with six because the teams wouldn't been even anymore. But now i see the Russia vs Spain match was played 6v1! This is really unacceptable. How can you say at one game that rule is 'play with the people that show up', then change to 'the teams have to be even' in the next game and then change back again in the third(+ignoring the rule that states a team has to have a minimum of 5 players). This only really supports Z-mans #2 theory since you were in the larger team of the third game. --[[User:Lackadaisical|Lackadaisical]]
:::::::Is this true? Spain vs Russia 6 vs 1? Are there recordings or server logs that can be reviewed? --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
Ok, it is true, their page shows it. Now, the question is, why wasn't it 5 vs 1? I see and believe that Sasha apparently didn't mind playing alone. But, in the Germany vs NAFTA match, we were told we were allowed to play with 7 people because NAFTA registered with 7; we showed up with eight, IIRC. Now, Russia registered with 5, so either I'm missing something here (perhaps you played with the implicit rule that you'd attack Sasha one at a time?) or Spain was playing with one player too many, according to the rule applied at the first match. I guess I'm not the only one who'd like an explanation. From DeZ, if possible, he seems to be the sensible one. All this doesn't make sense to me, unless I adopt one of the two theories as the most likely explanation. At the very least, the statements made here by AdY were *slightly* inaccurate and incomplete. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:The problem here is simply that the rules aren't nearly clear enough and don't cater for the circumstances we found ourselves in. On the two occasions I was in charge (USA v Alliance 1 and Spain v Russia) I took the approach that it was better to try and keep both teams happy than worry about exactly what the rules said.
:In the case of USA v Alliance 1, there were 5 players in each team during the first match. However, part-way through the second match, a 6th Alliance 1 player (a1|Goodkoen) arrived. I felt it unfair that he should join the team with the match underway and allowed the USA another team member (gengis) to balance the teams. Gengis was not from the US, but had not registered to play in another World Cup team. Both teams agreed to him playing.
:Following that decision, I offered Sasha the option to make up numbers in the same way, but (s)he turned this down, opting to play alone. Following the rules here would have meant defaulting Russia on the basis that they didn't have five players. Given that people had turned up wanting a match and Sasha was willing to play, I let the match go ahead. Sasha came up with some inventive and entertaining techniques to cope with the onslaught of Spanish cycles, but the inevitable happened and after two matches of this, Sasha decided that there was no point in continuing.
:I understand peoples' concerns about the fairness of the competition, but please bear with us: we're new to this! We will have clearer rules set out in plenty of time for the next Tron World Cup and I hope people will give us constructive feedback on them so that any problems can be ironed out before the start of the competition. --[[User:Dez|Dez]] 17:57, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Um fairness?? where was teh fairness in uk vs a1...or germany vs nafta?? in a way changing something to make it "fair" isn't very fair for the others who have already played...is it? --BlAzE
:: Would now be a good time to mention that Legit was banned from the server when we asked him to join? I'm willing to allow for being new to running a tournament if you're willing to learn from other tournaments, and there have been 2 recent tournaments that have learned these lessons already. I'm starting to lean towards the Kill NAFTA Conspiracy theory myself, you may have been fair Dez, but it was Ady-Lucifer watching over the NAFTA/Germany match, and if you ask me, the NAFTA team played waaaay better than the Germany team, even if we lost. Ideally, you'd want the team that plays the best to be the team that wins the match, and in a point-based system you already have problems determining that. Then throwing on additional advantages to one team skewers the result even further. If they played so well as to deserve to advance, the point spread shouldn't be as close as it was. --[[User:Lucifer|Lucifer]] 23:14, 27 July 2006 (CDT)
:Dez: Thanks, that clears some things up. I'd still say Spain vs Russia should have been 5 vs 1, but can file that under beginner's trouble. I think nobody has any objections against the USA vs A1 match, it only serves as a contrast to the less fair matches. Your post also sheds light on the admin structure. So far, I thought you were the technical admin and Ady the political decision maker. I assume Ady was in charge of UK vs A2? Because that one seemed to be 7 vs 5, and again Legit was present and I just assume he would have played for A2 if allowed to. I'd then have a request: could you, and not Ady, manage the rest of the matches? Looks like even when UK is playing, you'd make the better decisions, and it's no problem for me to live with stupid rules if the person in charge is willing to override them. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]

Another thing, today's (29th) match has a potential collision with the Ladle tournament if it goes as long as the UK-A2 one. The Ladle is supposed to start at 9 GMT. Germany will have three players potentially leaving for the Ladle, USA will have three players NOT potentially leaving. It could help if we make it an exceptional "best of three" match. I'll also post on the Ladle page to see if the schedule can be moved backwards. I'm not blaming anyone for this collision. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
:with only four teams signed up for the ladle, we should only have to conduct the finals at 11.15pm, and semi's at 10.30pm gmt... if the team-captains organise their teams... if the players turn up... so shouldn't be a problem [[User:2020|2020]]
::Great, that should suffice. I withdraw the request to make G - US a best of three match. --[[User:Z-Man|Z-Man]]
I also noticed that you intend to run the World Cup sometime later in the year. So, what is the title of this World Cup? Is it the 2006 World Cup, or what? [[User:2020|2020]]

It looks like the ITW server doesn't run for 2.8.1--[[User:AshitakA]]

== Teams ==

=== Alliance 1 (Austria, Canada, France and Netherlands) ===
*1394-freak
*JJBean
*BaTTaL
*Voodoo
*k3nny
*Lackadaisical
*freako
*Goodkoen

=== Alliance 2 (Switzerland, Portugal, Poland, Mexico, Italy) ===
*Drashia
*[[User:Cusco|cusco]] (PORTUGAL - going away on the 28th for 2 weeks)
*madmax
*WebGamer
* newbie
* sebol158
*the godfather (italy sicily player)
*Tidus (possibly dont will be there)
*~Super Daddy~

=== Germany ===
Link: [http://www.armagetron.nixda.net/wbboard/thread.php?boardid=3&threadid=903&page=1#13 Team Germany]
*Fr34k(y)
*Blader
*[[User:Pta|PTA]]
*Z-Man
*~*Mephisto*~
*$ubzero
*Slayer
*H.A.K.
*Sefgu
*Tronfreak
*Alien
*Narrow
*dyyXy!!
*AshitakA

=== North American Free Tron Alliance (NAFTA) ===
* Lucifer
* BlAzE
* anjori
* BaTTaL
* knojf
* Vanhayes
* [[User:Wrtlprnft|Wrtlprnft]]
''See [[Talk:International Tron World Cup]] for discussion''

[[Image:Russ.jpg|left]]

=== Russia ===
*Ossi
*Sasha
*badzilla
*doc
*man2d

[[Image:Spain.jpg|left|30px]]
=== Spain ===
*Ady-Lucifer (From Cantabria, aka Hell)
*ORiON(From Seville, Andalucía)
*[[User:ChiCho|ChiCho]] (From Motril, Andalucia)
*[[User:Xevic|Xevi]] (From Barcelona, Catalunya [[Image:CAT.gif]])
*AuRoN (From Jerez, Andalucia)
*[[User:ArcBeetle|ArcBeetle]] (From Cordoba, Andalucia)
*[[User:kakashi|Kakashi]] ( From Jerez, Andalucia )
*Alf (From Jaén, Andalucía)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4264/ukflag01rp6.jpg
=== United Kingdom ===
*ed (From Wales)
*[[User:X3r|X3R]] (be AFRAID!)
*)(Alex)(
*Infamous
*[[User:Syllabear|Syllabear]] (From N.Ireland)
*[[User:Dez|Dez]] (From England)
*Sleepy
*'''Pyroto'''
*2020 (currently in scotland)
*Pez
*Harlequin
*[[User:Xell|Xell]]
*'''Sp33D''' ''hould be ableto play every match go UK!''

@ Alex and Infamous, show some dignity. Temp ban of 1 day... would have been a week except for the fact you might need to post something to support your team --[[User:Your mom|Your mom]] 18:19, 27 July 2006 (CDT)

=== United States of America ===
*gArIsImO
*Wildcat(Probably cant make it because of work.)
*Goodygumdrops
*Chuck (I'll probably make it, since I have no life and stay at home all day :(, What time EST?)
*[[User:Durka|Dµrkå]] (99.99999999% chance I won't make it)
*Manta (This is 1PM in the afternoon! doesn't anyone work?)
*PsYkO WEWT
*Pandemonium
*Legit
*eclipse
*Stewie! (most likely will not make a very high percentage of not making it.)
*Kyle (may not make it)
*[[Oblivion Muahahaha!]]
* Tits
*Skip

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-26T21:19:17Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-26T21:18:02Z

AshitakA: /* Germany */

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-26T17:35:18Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-26T14:17:31Z

AshitakA: /* Comments/suggestions */

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-25T23:44:05Z

AshitakA: /* Germany */

International Tron World Cup

2006-07-23T15:43:33Z

AshitakA: /* Germany */

Wraith Squadron

2006-07-14T22:46:55Z

AshitakA: /* Wraith Squadron Members */

'''-( Who can join? )-'''

Congratulations Wraith Squadron Members on a great job during the ladle. Do to our small size we were almost dropped from the competition but you rose victorious and managed to win a second place standing.

As far as coordinating the team MSN seems to be working the best. Remember windows includes the MSN client and you can use your hotmail account to log in.

'''-( Pertinent Links )-'''

; [http://www.greenwichmeantime.com Time Coordination]

== Wraith Squadron Members ==

List of team members, and any comments or notes you want to make.

*AshitakA

*BlAzE

*Manta

*Upacreek

*ArcBeetle

*Wolverine