Lag - Revision history

Cadillac at 20:49, 23 August 2021

2021-08-23T20:49:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:49, 23 August 2021
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	"Trained" simple reactions supposedly need about 200 ms. But a game usually isn't just pushing a button when something flashes, so you can easily add some more. You have to identify an event first, then think up a reasonable response, and then finally press the appropriate button(s). I don't know how much additional time is needed, but I find that my effective reaction time in games hovers around 300 ms. That can include part of the response, such as actually clicking on something if it isn't tiny and far away. I do know that more intelligence tends to result in shorter complex reaction times. The reason you might not normally perceive brain lag but just its consequences is that you don't know any better. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 05:21, 10 June 2007 (PDT)		"Trained" simple reactions supposedly need about 200 ms. But a game usually isn't just pushing a button when something flashes, so you can easily add some more. You have to identify an event first, then think up a reasonable response, and then finally press the appropriate button(s). I don't know how much additional time is needed, but I find that my effective reaction time in games hovers around 300 ms. That can include part of the response, such as actually clicking on something if it isn't tiny and far away. I do know that more intelligence tends to result in shorter complex reaction times. The reason you might not normally perceive brain lag but just its consequences is that you don't know any better. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 05:21, 10 June 2007 (PDT)

	[[Category:~~Game Concepts~~]]		[[Category:Playing]]

Armanelgtron: /* Z-man's take (part 2) */

2015-01-01T00:13:00Z

Z-man's take (part 2)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:13, 31 December 2014
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	*'''(1)''' Maybe the reason is a network problem, packets from the server to your client getting lost or delayed.		*'''(1)''' Maybe the reason is a network problem, packets from the server to your client getting lost or delayed.
	*'''(2)''' Maybe it is a bug in your client that causes the extrapolation to be wrong or it may just a regular gameplay thing.		*'''(2)''' Maybe it is a bug in your client that causes the extrapolation to be wrong or it may just a regular gameplay thing.
	*'''(3)''' Maybe you've been riding within the ~~laggometer~~ of another player, and that player turned and threw a wall your way.		*'''(3)''' Maybe you've been riding within the lagometer of another player, and that player turned and threw a wall your way.

	(note)Obviously, if your client is sending the turn with a wrong gamestate, then the server will have a different view and won't be able to execute your command exactly as you expect. The server has the capacity to detect these errors, but it can't distinguish between (1) and (2). And it can't fix the problem by believing the command data from the client, this would give way to cheating.		(note)Obviously, if your client is sending the turn with a wrong gamestate, then the server will have a different view and won't be able to execute your command exactly as you expect. The server has the capacity to detect these errors, but it can't distinguish between (1) and (2). And it can't fix the problem by believing the command data from the client, this would give way to cheating.
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	*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.



	== What can be done about lag? ==		== What can be done about lag? ==

75.84.83.181: corrected spelling mistakes

2007-06-14T23:00:59Z

corrected spelling mistakes

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:00, 14 June 2007
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	== Description of Lag ==		== Description of Lag ==
	Ideally, the game would respond the very instant you or someone else hit a steering key. However, the underlying hardware is not capable of truly ~~instantanious~~ response, and therefore, neither is armagetron. This difference is called Lag.		Ideally, the game would respond the very instant you or someone else hit a steering key. However, the underlying hardware is not capable of truly instantaneous response, and therefore, neither is armagetron. This difference is called Lag.

	When you decide to hit a key, the following stages are passed:		When you decide to hit a key, the following stages are passed:

	# the command is transmitted to executing ~~musles~~		# the command is transmitted to executing muscles
	# the ~~musles~~ contract / the key is ~~beeing~~ pressed		# the muslces contract / the key is being pressed
	# armagetron is busy doing other stuff		# armagetron is busy doing other stuff
	# armagetron processes the key press and dispatches the information to the game server		# armagetron processes the key press and dispatches the information to the game server
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	The delay introduced by the individual stages can be approximated as follows:		The delay introduced by the individual stages can be approximated as follows:

	* Stages 1 and 2 takes a ~~predicatable~~ fraction of a second, less with training.		* Stages 1 and 2 takes a predictable fraction of a second, less with training.
	* Stage 3 predictably takes at most 1000 ms / [[fps]].		* Stage 3 predictably takes at most 1000 ms / [[fps]].
	* Stage 4 predictably takes a couple of microseconds unless the client's computer is very busy otherwise (such a case has never been reported)		* Stage 4 predictably takes a couple of microseconds unless the client's computer is very busy otherwise (such a case has never been reported)

Jonathan: /* Brain Lag */ Adding a real-world example

2007-06-11T22:13:56Z

Brain Lag: Adding a real-world example

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 11 June 2007
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	== Brain Lag ==		== Brain Lag ==

			[[Image:Reaction_time.jpg\|thumb\|These are 6 consecutive frames from a 15 FPS video. Three frames after the balloon moved it's clear that I responded, confirming the 200 ms figure. Actually it's probably a split frame longer, but then it was a semi-complex "untrained" reaction. Yes, the balloon blew on the third try.]]

	It's worth pointing out that there is also lag in your body. Psychologists have even measured it. It's the same basic problem as network latency, but it's worth considering. Your eyes see what's on the screen, but it takes some milliseconds for the signal to be processed in your brain. Then it takes some milliseconds for you to determine a reaction and act on it, and then it takes some milliseconds for the signal from your brain to travel to your fingers and make something happen. Because of the visual nature of the game, you can't take advantage of certain reflexive systems, but through training your fingers you can reduce the amount of nerve bandwidth needed to command your light cycle.		It's worth pointing out that there is also lag in your body. Psychologists have even measured it. It's the same basic problem as network latency, but it's worth considering. Your eyes see what's on the screen, but it takes some milliseconds for the signal to be processed in your brain. Then it takes some milliseconds for you to determine a reaction and act on it, and then it takes some milliseconds for the signal from your brain to travel to your fingers and make something happen. Because of the visual nature of the game, you can't take advantage of certain reflexive systems, but through training your fingers you can reduce the amount of nerve bandwidth needed to command your light cycle.

Wrtlprnft: Reverted edits by 210.205.32.149 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

2007-06-11T06:02:23Z

Reverted edits by 210.205.32.149 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:02, 11 June 2007
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Does it ever feel like the things you do don't happen quite the same way to everyone on the grid? There's a reason for that, and the reason is called ''lag''.		Have you wondered why sometimes you think you dumped the other guy only to find that your dumped yourself? Does it ever feel like the things you do don't happen quite the same way to everyone on the grid? There's a reason for that, and the reason is called ''lag''.

	== Description of Lag ==		== Description of Lag ==
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	*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''		*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''
	*'''(11 12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13 14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.

210.205.32.149 at 04:45, 11 June 2007

2007-06-11T04:45:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 11 June 2007
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Does it ever feel like the things you do don't happen quite the same way to everyone on the grid? There's a reason for that, and the reason is called ''lag''.

	== Description of Lag ==		== Description of Lag ==
Line 96:		Line 96:

	*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''		*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''
	*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11 12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13 14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.

Jonathan: /* Brain Lag */ Let's add something as well.

2007-06-10T12:21:41Z

Brain Lag: Let's add something as well.

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:21, 10 June 2007
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	When I took my Intro to Psychology class, my teacher didn't have any actual numbers, it would be awfully nice of someone were to google them up. Nevertheless, brain lag is real, and it really affects the game. It's not as noticeable as network latency, but when you add the two together you get some interesting results. --Lucifer		When I took my Intro to Psychology class, my teacher didn't have any actual numbers, it would be awfully nice of someone were to google them up. Nevertheless, brain lag is real, and it really affects the game. It's not as noticeable as network latency, but when you add the two together you get some interesting results. --Lucifer

			"Trained" simple reactions supposedly need about 200 ms. But a game usually isn't just pushing a button when something flashes, so you can easily add some more. You have to identify an event first, then think up a reasonable response, and then finally press the appropriate button(s). I don't know how much additional time is needed, but I find that my effective reaction time in games hovers around 300 ms. That can include part of the response, such as actually clicking on something if it isn't tiny and far away. I do know that more intelligence tends to result in shorter complex reaction times. The reason you might not normally perceive brain lag but just its consequences is that you don't know any better. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]] 05:21, 10 June 2007 (PDT)

	[[Category:Game Concepts]]		[[Category:Game Concepts]]

Jonathan: Reverted edits by 83.224.64.4 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

2007-06-10T12:06:20Z

Reverted edits by 83.224.64.4 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:06, 10 June 2007
Line 96:		Line 96:

	*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''		*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''
	*'''(11 12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13 14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.

83.224.64.4 at 11:05, 10 June 2007

2007-06-10T11:05:01Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:05, 10 June 2007
Line 96:		Line 96:

	*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''		*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''
	*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11 12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13 14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.

Jonathan: Reverted edits by 62.231.243.136 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

2007-05-18T21:31:32Z

Reverted edits by 62.231.243.136 (Talk); changed back to last version by Jonathan

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:31, 18 May 2007
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[http://senapier.dl.pl free animal ringtones] [http://musicguild.bc.edu/message.asp?MessageID=265 buy zanaflex] Have you wondered why sometimes you think you dumped the other guy only to find that your dumped yourself? Does it ever feel like the things you do don't happen quite the same way to everyone on the grid? There's a reason for that, and the reason is called ''lag''.		Have you wondered why sometimes you think you dumped the other guy only to find that your dumped yourself? Does it ever feel like the things you do don't happen quite the same way to everyone on the grid? There's a reason for that, and the reason is called ''lag''.

	== Description of Lag ==		== Description of Lag ==
Line 96:		Line 96:

	*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''		*'''(10)''' GPU lag, when your graphics card is lagging behind the rendering commands sent to it; This should only happen if you modify the "Swap Mode" default in the performance tweaks section. ''[Finish is pretty much a guarantee of no trouble, flush should work, and fastest is not guaranteed to do anything. The swap function the current SDL uses on Mac OS X does a flush all by itself, so on that platform fastest is flush, flush is double flush, and finish is finish followed by flush. The performance impact of a redundant flush in this sense is negligible, however. —[[User:Jonathan\|Jonathan]]<nowiki>]</nowiki>''
	*'''(11 12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.		*'''(11+12)''' timer lag on the server or client, when the timer is somehow behaving wrongly; since the timer is essential for everything, bad things happen then. The two worst cases not caused by code bugs seen so far were a 5% accelerated clock rate on a client because the MB was overclocked, and timer jumps due to occasional clock syncs on Bugfarm.
	*'''(13 14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.		*'''(13+14)''' CPU lag on server and client, when the processor is not strong enough to simulate the game and your commands get delayed because of that.