From Armagetron

I want to join... hheheh Looking good lack...--2020 11:13, 9 September 2006 (CDT)

Don't know if you guys saw, but Durka placed links for the 4 Team Fortress tourney everywhere. Well, there was one on the team page too, asking if we were interested, which I removed. Just a notice. --Madmax 18:09, 29 September 2006 (CDT)

what we need to do better

I just watched my recording from our semi final again. I think the chief reason for us losing were:

- no coordination - bad grind; they were always faster rsp. we split too late - no team leader to change strategy on the fly (no one thought of a tactic to permit efficient attack and could cause that to happen) - relieving a good goalie by a less good one when the _offense_ does not work - stopping offense (that never works imho. but we could only have stopped taking risks in the offense and tried to split earlier to counter their speed advantage)


  • We should practice before the tourney.
  • We should assign responsibilities (offense coordinator, defense coordinator) prior to the match and not change them during it. (the executing person can change, of course).
  • We should agree on tactical matters such as the function of a sweeper. There are two variants:
    1. the sweeper must keep attackers away from the goalie. Only after he is dead can they get through
    2. the sweeper should delay attackers until the goalie has set up, let them through in small doses, and squezze them against the goalie's wall to kill them (and be prepared to take half the zone if the goalie is cut)
  • in my opinion, 2. is much better, as the attackers have to deal with two of us at once instead of one at a time.

Meriton 17:16, 1 October 2006 (CDT)

Your thoughts?

I'm not sure if you know what their defence looked like. They had SeBoL158 making a box where he overlapped his own tail a lot. Newbie was sweeping (one of the best sweepers). In my opinion there is not much point in me cruising around their zone when there is virtually no chance to conquer it. I felt useless attacking so I suggested that we would try without attackers. About sweepers; the difference between the two variants is very small. It's impossible to stop a good attacker from reaching the defender, so the first variant will become the second one quite fast when the attackers are good. If you felt that you were doing a good job as a goalie (which you were in my opinion) you should have said so and not let Lackadaisical take over. Personally I don't think it's worth the hassle to set up trainings and assign responsibilities for just a couple of games, I just play because it's fun, don't care much about the results in the end. --MaZuffeR 18:23, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
I know what their defense looked like. I was there once, and watched the replay. Crusing around their zone has a point: It occupies both the goalie and the sweeper. If we don't attack, that very same skilled sweeper will dogfight close to our fortress, putting stress on our defense. But I think the main reason is that some attacking assigns clearer areas of responsibility. We'd be less likely to have redundant defense walls or step on each other's toes. I am not saying the offense did a poor job; I agree their defense was very skilled. But all of us sweeping did not seem to work any better than the attacks we made in the beginning. Meriton 19:46, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
The few rounds I had time to look, newbie was staying quite close to their zone until a few of us had died even if no one of us was attacking. I would of course have started attacking if I had noticed SeBoL158 being alone or our defence not having any problems with the attackers. I agree that everyone sweeping didn't work any better than me attacking, but we were losing and we had to change our tactic in some way. --MaZuffeR 07:56, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
I think the difference between the two variants is important. I don't agree that variant 1 usually turns into variant 2. Just as often, the sweeper takes risks and dies. I agree I should not have let lacka take over.
You did not say anything about the grind/split. Was my impression of too little speed/too late a break correct? Meriton 19:46, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
From what I rememeber the grind/split was fine, not great, but fine. In my opinion we did not lose the match because of bad grinding or splitting too late. I can't remember them ever reaching our zone before you had set up, which should be enough to win matches. --MaZuffeR 07:56, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
Actually I did ask for change of tactic but it's hard to give commands when you are playing the game at the same time. I think if one of the wings double grinded (the one without the def on their side) and the other split soon, we could've overtook them on one side and attack their base fast, hopefully before sebol has set up his def. Holers did a good job their first match against pronoobz because they could disrupt sebols def by either overtaking the wings or do a center attack. Another thing we could've done was torpedo sebol, but we would still need to make sure newbie was dead and a torpedo is risky when you only have five people on a team since you need three people to make sure it works. The reason i wanted to take def was because i saw people get into the def because you had a gap, but it's true i did a worse job. Personally I'd rather had someone mimicing sebols def on our side.
We could've done with more preparation before the match, and i already had the idea but i was too late (just a few minutes before the first match would start) to set things up properly. About practice, how about i try and arrange a 'revenge' match with pronoobz? Who would be up for that? --Lackadaisical 19:01, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
My defense speciality is sumo defense, so that's what I tried to do. That defense works just as well (actually I think it's better) if executed right, but requires a different separation of roles than endless spinning à la sebol. Alas, we had never before talked about that, otherwise, the defense would have worked a lot better. I acknowledge that my defense was not perfect, and in the 5 rounds before you took over, I lost 2 rounds to cut attacks. I lost 1 rounds in a tight fight against two opponents and 1 due to the misunderstanding where Lack killed me and himself. The round we won was when only 3 opponents and I were left and I killed all 3. But the analysis shows that the offense had a problem, not the defense. (In most rounds, I failed after you all died). So wanting defense was premature IMHO, and me granting it was out of a wrong sense of politeness. Anyway, I think we have learned from this what we can.
A revenge match sounds interesting. Meriton 19:46, 1 October 2006 (CDT)
I try to take part in a revenge match if you can arrange one at a suitable time (I'm away next weekend). Hopefully I'll have a better day than yesterday when/if this happens. --MaZuffeR 07:56, 2 October 2006 (CDT)
I'm up for that match. Best time for me is around 9/10PM GMT on pretty much any day (as long as it's settled with time). --Madmax 06:27, 3 October 2006 (CDT)
I PM'd newbie and we agreed on 17 october 8pm GMT, I hope that's not too early for you max, newbie thought 9pm might be a bit too late for some of his people. I informed Blackbird about it who didn't know if (s)he was available yet. --Lackadaisical 17:59, 8 October 2006 (CDT)


Ok, I hope everyone has seen my previous message, because the match is tonight. I'm gonna try to be on irc at least an hour before the match starts, and then switch around to see if i can catch newbie on the grid to see where we are gonna play. I'm guessing this will be at LOD since ady has admin there so we can keep other people out. Hope to see you all on irc too so we can talk about the strategies etc. (#armagetron at freenode) --Lackadaisical 05:08, 17 October 2006 (CDT)

Ok, cu there Meriton 12:09, 17 October 2006 (CDT)